Curse

Nash · Apr 09, 2005, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quests

It's been said Guild Wars isn't about FedEx quests, and for most of that game that's true. However, in Pre-Searing, that's all there is. Go get my apple basket, go get me 10 disgusting bodyparts, go make me a sandwich.

You run back and forth across the place on boring quests, and it feels like you're playing WoW, and you just want to get out of there as soon as possible to play the missions. Of course new people don't know about those missions, they might think that this is all there is to the game.

Party Size

Yeah, GW is about playing with your friends, etc... And how can you do that with 2 player parties, assuming you have more than 1 friend? Will new players magically know that this restriction applies only to the starter area and not the whole game? People question the viablility of no monthly fees all the time, will they assume that 2 player parties is all the game can handle due to no fees?

Non-Linear Setup/Vague Directions

So, you run around back and forth in the non-linear area it is, which causes a lot of running around, which is not fun. You also have trouble finding things. You have the quest arrow for quests in the log, of course, but things that don't show up in log you have to run around and look for, which can be frustrating and hardly "just doing the fun bits". Vague directions like "to the East" are hopeless, I spent maybe half an hour looking for a Ranger trainer "to the East" with no luck, and then gave up.

Armaio · Apr 09, 2005, 07:47 PM // 19:47

I see your points, but I'am sure most of the players going into Guild Wars have looked into it and found that these restrictions are only in the beginning, and that missions come later. Most people learn something about a game before purchasing it, I know I do...

Cyris · Apr 09, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50

I agree with Armaio entirely i have spent ages looking at info, screenies and vids before i even thought about buying it and i already no quite alot about the game even the gameplay and areas in the game!

BlackArrow · Apr 09, 2005, 07:51 PM // 19:51

I agree with Nash on this one (probably the first time I've said that

) but I have noticed the traditional MMO feeling of pre-searing and it doesn't seem to be a good intro to the GW missions that come after the searing. It is a good place to introduce the quest system in GW. After the searing you can still do quests like in pre-searing, but they are overshadowed by the superior missions and storyline.

Cyris · Apr 09, 2005, 07:52 PM // 19:52

you have got a point but its like most games. its just an intro and a chance to learn the game before setting out.

Shrapnel_Magnet · Apr 09, 2005, 07:55 PM // 19:55

The one thing you CAN hope for is that in the Boxed Form, a detailed manual will outline the game... sure, not a lot of players actually read the manual before playing the game, but it gives them something to do during install. So maybe they will after all, lol.

I have to somewhat agree as well... but I'm sure you've noticed the support and good resposes to the area as well?

Nash · Apr 09, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyris

I agree with Armaio entirely i have spent ages looking at info, screenies and vids before i even thought about buying it and i already no quite alot about the game even the gameplay and areas in the game!

No everyone is an informed customer, or takes the time to actually find something out beforehand. A lot of people are just gonna forego reading anything, get right to playing, and that will be their first contact with the game. It has to make a good impression.

Loviatar · Apr 09, 2005, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrapnel_Magnet

The one thing you CAN hope for is that in the Boxed Form, a detailed manual will outline the game... sure, not a lot of players actually read the manual before playing the game, but it gives them something to do during install. So maybe they will after all, lol.

I have to somewhat agree as well... but I'm sure you've noticed the support and good resposes to the area as well?

Gaile said that the manual is getting a lot of attention and should be excellent

vai demine · Apr 09, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

No everyone is an informed customer, or takes the time to actually find something out beforehand. A lot of people are just gonna forego reading anything, get right to playing, and that will be their first contact with the game. It has to make a good impression.

Have to agree with Nash on this one. Many folks just don't take the time to read/learn first. Just reading through the forums will show you how dependent some people are on telling them everything to do. "What is that strange link up there called 'Search'? Oh well, someone will answer my 'original' question for me."

I think there will be many players who read a review somewhere or hear about the game and buy it thinking it is revolutionary (which it is), then see Pre-Searing Ascalon and think it is just like all the other questing games around. Not sure how I feel about this, maybe Pre-Searing will weed out certain types of people, maybe it won't. We'll just have to wait and see.

Vai

Greentongue · Apr 09, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

No everyone is an informed customer, or takes the time to actually find something out beforehand. A lot of people are just gonna forego reading anything, get right to playing, and that will be their first contact with the game. It has to make a good impression.

I also agree with Nash.

I feel that the Pre-Sear is a huge Explorable Area.

There should be at least one Mission, if not more. Having a 4 member party for the initial Mission would be a great introduction. Maybe a Mission that gives the background of why Guilds fight. With henchmen opponents in a starting arena as part of the mission. Maybe the beginning of the mission would be travelling to the arena.

You could even have two 2 person teams randomly joined for this arena.

HotSnack · Apr 09, 2005, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

Party Size

Yeah, GW is about playing with your friends, etc... And how can you do that with 2 player parties, assuming you have more than 1 friend? Will new players magically know that this restriction applies only to the starter area and not the whole game? People question the viablility of no monthly fees all the time, will they assume that 2 player parties is all the game can handle due to no fees?

You have a point there, though I imagine this can be explained through those little pop up help boxes i.e. after forming a party for the first time, a box will appear saying "For now you can form parties in twos, but you may form even larger parties later on".

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackArrow

I agree with Nash on this one (probably the first time I've said that ) but I have noticed the traditional MMO feeling of pre-searing and it doesn't seem to be a good intro to the GW missions that come after the searing.

Is that necessarily a bad thing? There are lots of people coming into GW from previous MMORPG backgrounds - expecting (and in some ways wanting) to see the same thing. At least this way they are eased into the flow of GW.

Kha · Apr 09, 2005, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Agreed. It just doesn't prepare you correctly for the rest of the game.

Silmor · Apr 09, 2005, 08:53 PM // 20:53

I think it's more of a layered approach. First they make sure you become familiar with the game's interface in the pre-searing tutorial - learn how to use skills, how to level up, how to spend attribute points, etcetera. In this sense it's pretty similar to the original tutorial, but much broader and with other people running around in the settlements. When they're ready to move on, they move to post-searing where they learn about missions.

It may not be perfect, but there's something to be said for not trying to cram everything the game entails into one tutorial, it lets you focus on the things that are essential. Once the game goes live the tutorial won't serve any purpose as 'selling point' to the game - people playing in it have already bought their copy, so it's better to make sure they don't end up in post-searing while still wondering how to target a monster or how to sell their loot, or other basics of the basics like that. Tutorial != demo.

Maybe post-searing does need a little 'after tutorial' though, the current method seems to be a quest to 'report to the North Wall' which a lot of people seem to overlook; the mission exit in the new post-searing Ascalon seems more obscure as well. I suppose with the green markers finding it will be less of an issue, but given the substantially different nature of missions there should be a clear explanation that from this point forward you are supposed to complete missions instead of running around completing quests.

cpukilla · Apr 09, 2005, 09:09 PM // 21:09

I agree that pre-searing is not a lot like the rest of the game. Like someone said though, its probably not so bad that is has more of the typical mmo "feel" because that is what many people are used to and expecting. Its very pretty and short enough that they can move on quickly enough. I would like to see at least one real "mission" mission as well though. Maybe add a full mission as part of the acadamy or change around the current setup so its more like the rest of the game.

Ensign · Apr 09, 2005, 09:11 PM // 21:11

The big problem I have with the tutorial area is that it has next to nothing to do with the rest of the game. Instead of introducing staging areas and missions, you just have a bit EA. Instead of teaching people how to acquire skills and choosing your build, you get handed a pre-selected set of starter skills. Instead of encouraging, even requiring significant teamplay, it actively encourages you to solo.

While I enjoy the area for what it is, it's a failure as a tutorial. After playing it, you get dumped into Ascalon City without any knowledge of how skill trainers work, of what missions are, of anything of the sorts.

Fixing this is straightforward. Turn the free skill NPCs into skill trainers that walk you through the process. Turn a couple key areas, like the catacombs or north of the wall, into mission areas that players are expected to complete before entering the academy. Use the tutorial to teach people how to play the game, not as a mostly different game that just hands off a few skills and equipment before making people learn on the fly after the searing.

Peace,
-CxE

Lazek Phoenix · Apr 09, 2005, 09:32 PM // 21:32

I completly agree.

First of all the area is to large with the vague dirrections. It took me forever to find the trainers. All they tell you is go notrh, south, east, or west and in this area. That is nowhere near enough info for new players.

Also the party number has to be incresed (maybe to like 4). For a game that is all about going out in teams and not soloing it, only allowing 2 people in a party gives new players a bad vision of the rest of the game.

Rizzen Khalazar · Apr 09, 2005, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Maybe things will be changed come release? Maybe it willbe changed come the last BWE? Im sure they know about peoples concerns, hopefully they will read or hear about issues and take care of them quickly, unlike other games where it takes 4 months to get a decent patch

Marksmann · Apr 09, 2005, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Yup, you guys are right. As a tutorial, it was good in that the developers were trying to set up a relatively non-threatening area where characters could be introduced to ALL of the professions, primary & secondary, without having to worry too much about getting wasted every time they turned around, and to get familiar with most of the basic controls in the game. It could be improved, as Ensign & cpukilla said, by changing the skill NPC's into skill trainers, like what is in the rest of the game, and introducing at least one fairly easy "mission" that would expose players to the team aspect of the game. Those two additions would make the tutorial much more effective as an introduction to the game as it really operates.

Dreamsmith · Apr 09, 2005, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

...Turn a couple key areas, like the catacombs or north of the wall, into mission areas that players are expected to complete before entering the academy.

Or alternately, have joining the Academy start you on a series of, say, three missions, the Searing coming at the end of the third. The first two would just get you new outposts on the KoA map, and you could still map travel back and forth, so entering the Academy doesn't have to be a complete leaving your life behind sort of thing. The missions Academy members participate in would be 4 player missions instead of two, so you gain experience with larger parties at the same time. And put your first henchies here as well for when you need to round out the party and don't have enough real players (or the right real players).

Sam Katha · Apr 09, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

I hate to make a me too post, but... me too

Pre-searing Ascalon needs some sort of instanced co-op mission. They're just too big a part of the game to not include.